Asexuality, Aromanticism, and the Spectrum of Identity with Margherita Scialla

Romance isn't just about happily ever afters - it's about exploring the full spectrum of the human experience, including sexuality and identity. In this episode, Alesia sits down with author Margherita Scialla to dive deep into the nuances of aromanticism, asexuality and how these identities are represented in literature. Through their insightful conversation, listeners will gain a deeper understanding of the complexities within the LGBTQIA+ community and the importance of diverse representation in romance and beyond.

Margherita is a Gen-Z author born and raised in Italy with a passion for stories of all kinds and a talent in procrastinating. Xe writes under the names Margherita Scialla and Robin Jo Margaret.

In this episode, we're discussing:

• Margherita's author journey and the distinction between her Margherita and Robin Joe Margaret pen names
• The importance of including diverse LGBTQIA+ identities in her writing
• Understanding the differences between aromanticism and asexuality and how they are often misunderstood
• Exploring the representation of asexual and allosexual characters in Margherita's books
• The Diverse Baseline Challenge and the importance of reading diversely

We encourage you to assess your reading habits, seek out diverse authors and continue learning about the nuanced experiences within the LGBTQIA+ community. Amplifying these voices can create a more inclusive and representative literary landscape.

CONNECT WITH MARGHERITA:

Website

Instagram

Substack

Asexuality and Aromanticism Are Not The Same (Substack Post)

The Diverse Baseline Challenge

BOOKS/AUTHORS MENTIONED:

Pillow Forts and Hurricanes (Amazon)

The Romantic Agenda (Amazon)

Role Playing (Amazon)

Books by Margherita (Amazon) | Robin (Amazon)

Running list of books mentioned (Doc)

Thank you for listening to the We Read Smut Podcast! If you enjoyed this episode, take a screenshot of the episode to post in your stories and tag @WeReadSmut. Don’t forget to follow, rate, and review the podcast.

Connect with Alesia:
Storygraph

This podcast was produced by Galati Media.
Proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction: Exploring the Spectrum of Romance and Sexuality
• 2:30 Margherita's Author Journey and Pen Names
• 7:15 The Importance of LGBTQIA+ Representation in Literature
• 12:30 Understanding Aromanticism and Asexuality
• 22:45 Exploring Sexuality and Romantic Attraction in Writing
• 31:00 Representation of Asexuality and Allosexuality in Books
• 37:15 The Diverse Baseline Challenge and Diversifying Reading Habits
• 45:00 Closing Thoughts and Encouragement

Transcript

Alesia Galati: 0:00

Romance isn't just about happily ever afters, it's about exploring the full spectrum of the human experience, including sexuality and identity. Join us today for an enlightening conversation with Margherita. Listener discretion is advised this podcast contains mature content intended for adult audiences only. I am so excited to chat with you today. Thank you so much for being on. Let's go ahead and dive right into your books. So I have seen you around Bookstagram, and then when I saw you were an author, I was like, yes please. And so I recently read Hello forts and hurricanes. Loved it so much. It's just so sweet and cozy and just oh, I wanted to eat it up. So let's go into like, where your author journey started. What are some of the books that you have under your name?

Margherita Scialla: 0:58

Hello. First of all, I write with two names, with Margherita, which is my real name, and then with a pen name, which is Robin, Joe Margaret. I started as Margherita in 2021, I believe, if I remember correctly, and I've always been into stories. I've been writing since I was five years old, and I didn't know how to write yet, so I was forcing my dad to write what I was telling him, and I always knew that I wanted to do this, maybe not like a job, but like a hobby, for sure. At one point, I decided that I had to publish something. Otherwise I wasn't going to take it seriously. My first book is not really up to my standards, my current standards, but I'm happy that I published something so that I could actually start this author journey. So

Alesia Galati: 1:52

how do your two author names work in tandem? So what can people expect from Margherita and what can people expect from Robin

Margherita Scialla: 2:01

with Margherita? I have currently four books. They are more young adult and new adult, but for people my age, I'm currently 23 and they're mostly contemporary romance or contemporary stories, apart from one which is fantasy, but that was a fluke, and I want to keep writing contemporary romance as Margherita, and from now on, I will probably also write more adult contemporary romance. And for my pen name, I usually write monster romance or paranormal romance, and it's definitely more on the steamy side of things.

Alesia Galati: 2:46

You have a lot of LGBTQIA plus identities in your books. Why is that important to you, specifically and for your readers?

Margherita Scialla: 2:58

It's important for me, specifically because I am also part of the LGBT community. I unfortunately have many of those labels. I say unfortunately because they get messy after a while, and very confusing when they mix with each other, but I identify with many of those. So I find it very important to write my own experiences, because it helps me understand them better, because sometimes I have the thoughts in my head, but until I put them down into writing, I don't really understand what they are, what they mean. So I write the stories with my own identities to help myself and also to see people like me be happy and find love and things like that, but I also want to write other identities that don't really have anything to do with me, because I want other people also to feel seen with my writing. So as of now, I think I have all of the identity identities of the LGBT community apart from intersex. But I do have books planned with intersex characters as well, so soon I will probably complete the who is.

Alesia Galati: 4:11

I love that I think that it's so important for people to understand experiences outside of our own. While I might not consider myself, at least before I saw a lot of your content ace at all, I was like, No, I wouldn't consider myself a romantic because I didn't understand what that actually meant, and I'm not asexual. And so no, I wouldn't consider myself to be part of that category. But then in reading and in learning, I was like, wait a minute, actually, I think I might identify with some of these things that may that's very interesting. And I think that when we read or write outside of our lived experience that it allows. Allows us, especially if it's done right and if it's done correctly, and not with your harmful stereotypes, but when you're able to read books that really clearly state those experiences, it really allows you to have empathy and to understand someone else's lived experience in a deeper way. I think that it's so important, and kudos to you for getting all of those. It's like a bingo card. Nope, got them all. So I think that's a really cool I want to talk specifically in this conversation asexuality and aromanticism, because I think that while it is a can be very confusing topic that at least the base understanding of it can help people to understand it. And so I personally, like I said, did not identify as a romantic until I read one of your posts where you talked through what it actually was, talked about the differences. And I thought I actually feel a lot of that, and a lot of that is confusing to me, and I don't have those feelings. Okay, then I went down a whole internet rabbit hole. So let's get into the very basics of aromanticism versus asexuality. I made

Margherita Scialla: 6:20

a post a little over a year ago, and I recently reposted everything with added content. But the basic is that asexuality and aromanticism are two different things. Asexuality is about sexual attraction and aromanticism is about romantic attraction. They work the same way, despite being about different things. They are both spectrums, so people that identify with one or the other can feel in so many different ways, and you won't find two people that are exactly the same. And the problem is that aromaticism is not as known, so it's often completed with sexuality, which makes people think that they are linked together and or that they are the same things, but they're not. You just have to learn to differentiate them, to educate yourself on the difference between the two and the various stereotypes and what is true and what is not. There's a lot of misconceptions online. So

Alesia Galati: 7:28

I couldn't even agree more. There's so many misconceptions. And I think that societally, we I don't know if conflates the right word, we combine this idea that sex equals love or romantic feeling. Yeah, and that's not really true at all. You have to be able to go deeper to understand the spectrum of it. So let's start with sexuality. Specifically. What is that? And keeping in mind that it is a spectrum, that there is a range, but we're like, correctly, how can we see that spectrum on a timeline of one side versus the other? It's a

Margherita Scialla: 8:12

little bit different to have a real timeline of the spectrum, but definitely on the left side we have a sexual which is used as the umbrella term, but also the specific term of the individuals that feel no sexual attraction at all, for some of these sexual people, that can mean that they are sexual ripples as well, that they don't really like the idea of sex, or even hearing about it. Some sexual people might not feel attraction at all, but are still okay with talking about it or reading about it in a book. And then we also have further on the spectrum, asexual people that do feel some degree of sexual attraction, maybe only if you developed a deep bond with a person, and that is usually called demisexuality, for example, or there is attraction that fluctuates between no attraction at all and some attraction that is usually called gray sexuality. It's really a diverse spectrum of experiences.

Alesia Galati: 9:26

I had no idea that, and this is clearly misunderstanding on my part, 100% I learned last week that someone who identifies as asexual would still be interested in potentially writing books with smut in them, or could be potentially interested in thinking about it, and it's a way for them to explore these ideas without physically feeling them. And I was like, it makes sense in my head, but it never like actually. Crossed my mind as a possibility. I can

Margherita Scialla: 10:03

make you an example if you want. Yes please, because technically I'm Ace, but I write smut. I don't feel attraction to people. Yeah, my attraction is not connected to a person, but I still have a fairly highly veto. On my own, without connecting to a person of something, I still get hornier and things like that, and I usually channel that into stories to write math, but that's not connected to a person. I know it makes sense. It does,

Alesia Galati: 10:32

honestly, it does. And I don't see myself as asexual or demisexual or gray sexual. I'm on the other side. And you posted about what that the other one is alesexual. Thank you. Yes, that one. And so that really you said that I was like, No, that makes sense. I can understand why you would feel that way, and how you would feel that way, even thinking about, like, hormonal changes. I'm a mom. I got two kids, yeah, and there were a lot of hormonal changes after having kids, where I would still be like, I'm horny, but also don't touch me. Nobody touch me. I don't want to be touched. So I can understand the two things and feeling two things at once, and it being in conflict to societal ideas of what people think other people are expected to act like. And I really loved that about your book, pillow forts and hurricanes, because there was a lot of exploration of your female main character. She was having sex and she had a boyfriend and she was in a relationship, but she almost felt like she had to, while it was enjoyable, it felt like it some it was something that she had to do, because societally, that's what people did. And I thought that was such a great approach to us doing things just because we think that it's what we're supposed to do, or it's because this is what you do when you get to that part. And I'm using bunny ears for people who can't see me, that part of your relationship you're supposed to go the next step, get the home run, etc. And I think it's just it's so dumb. And so I loved that you took that approach and you talked through that.

Margherita Scialla: 12:14

Yeah, I feel like that's the same for alo people and Ace and other people as well. There's a certain set of expectations about how you're supposed to act in a relationship, and most of us just go along with it without questioning why we're doing it or if we want to do it. And sometimes you just have to take a step back and figure out what you want, why you're doing things and stuff like that. Yeah,

Alesia Galati: 12:43

I can think of the first book I read where there was a demi, sexual male main character, and as the couple were exploring it, he was like, I just don't really feel attraction to the people until, like, sexual attraction to people, until I, like, get to know them, and I get to like them, and we've been in the same space, and then I start to feel that sexual attraction. And so then the female main character was like, reading up on it. Was like, I think you might be demisexual. Here's what I read up on it, and here's what it means. And he was able to read up on it, too. And like, the way that they were conversing about it was just so open and so freeing. And to see that in a male main character in an industry that tends to, yeah, hyper sexualized men, I thought was just so beautiful. It was role playing by Kathy Yardley. And I just I loved that book so much. And then also the other book that I read was The romantic agenda by Claire Khan. That was, like my first introduction to asexuality. And I was like, what? Oh, my goodness, this is so interesting. And then even the way that she was, the female main character, was combating how both her and her best friend identified as asexual, but they approached it very differently. Like her friend was perfectly fine. The male one of the male characters was fine having sex and taking that, taking relationships to that level, whereas she was not, and the way that she had to explain it to someone with a lot of, like, racial feeling, like, no stop typing, stop make, like, putting me in a box. It is not at all how it is. It's not how it feels. And I just thought it was such a interesting approach to having those conversations. And also, like slapping across the side of the head of, come on, get it together. Like people are not singular things. No, we are so multifaceted as people. So speaking of asexuality and sexuality, allosexuality, how does that show up in your books? Specifically, I

Margherita Scialla: 14:53

have a couple of asexual characters. I have asexual characters in tears in the water. Character, the male main character, is demisexual. We have also a side character who is both asexual and aromantic, and technically also the main character is Ace, but they still don't know their questioning during the story, and by the end of the book, they don't really come to a conclusion. They just do a mental note of, I'll have to come back to this later, because I'm already having another identity crisis, and I cannot handle more than one right now. It's still questioning by the end of the book, but it's there,

Alesia Galati: 15:31

which I think is such a beautiful way to approach it, too. Of, yes, we have our happily ever after, but also that doesn't mean that everything in your entire life is resolved doesn't mean that you have this house and the 2.5 kids and you got married, it can still be a happy for now and still be a beautiful book and still be happy ending like it doesn't have to be just because you haven't figured everything out. I think we have a lot of expectations on books to almost have bookends to them. Of this is the start of the relationship, and this is the end, and everything is hunky dory. Yes, actually not.

Margherita Scialla: 16:11

I also have another sexual character in one of my Robin books in my latest one, which is blessed by the cupid distribution system. And the main character is she just uses the term a spec without being specific. She doesn't really have a label in the story. She just explains that she has a complicated relationship with attraction, and while she doesn't really feel the physical attraction for who will then become her girlfriend, she does want to try sex with her, because she is curious and she feels sick with her. So she still tries.

Alesia Galati: 16:48

I need to read your Robin books. I have not read any of them. I have some, but I have not read them yet, and so now I'm like adding to my TBR mentally. We're adding those to the TV.

Margherita Scialla: 16:59

I have to remember the two books that you mentioned, because I have not read those, so I want to put them on the TBR, yes.

Alesia Galati: 17:06

And we'll make sure we have links for all these in the show notes for anyone who's like, Wait, what was that book? Again, we got you. It's fine. And we'll make sure that we have those linked as well any other ones with sexual spectrum, with

Margherita Scialla: 17:17

a sexuality only these, then I have other kind of sexualities, like I have a lot of bisexual characters, pansexual, gay, lesbian, and then I have a couple aromantic characters, and also trans characters, both binary and non binary. I have everything sprinkled in all of the books, multiple identities in multiple books. So making a whole list will probably take a while.

Alesia Galati: 17:47

No worries. Let's go ahead and jump into the aromantic spectrum, understanding what that might look like. It

Margherita Scialla: 17:57

kind of works the same way as a sexuality, but obviously with romantic attraction, which, again, is it's a complicated thing, because this one is also subjective. Because if you ask any person what they consider romantic, they will give you a different definition. They will give you something that could be shared even between friends. It really depends on the person, what they think is romantic and what isn't, if they feel it, if they don't, or at what degree they feel it, same as the sexuality. Romantic is used as both the umbrella term and one side of the spectrum, which is no romantic attraction at all. But again, some people can feel some kind of attraction. Some people do not feel attraction, but still decide to have relationships because they still care about the other person to some degree, even if it's not what society will consider romantic, it's all different than and it usually depends on the person. Yeah,

Alesia Galati: 19:01

that's where I think it can be confusing for a lot of people, aromanticism, and what does it actually mean that I had conversations with some girlfriends where I was like, What is romance to you guys? What does that look like? And how do you feel it? And trying to understand other people's perspective of what romance was, and that really made me realize, no, I actually don't think I really fall into feeling romantic attraction, because how I show up and love someone is fairly equal across the board, between my husband and my friends, like how I think about them and how I want to do nice things for them, and what I would consider romance? I'm like, Yeah, I could do that with friends, though. I just also don't want to have sex with my friends.

Margherita Scialla: 19:52

If you try to Google what is romance, you'll get answers like, taking care of the people you care about, which. Is so generic, and literally works for family and friends as well, or to be physical with the person. And then again, this mixes with sexuality, and maybe you care about the person and you love the person romantically, but you don't want to be physical with them. So that also doesn't really apply to everyone. The definitions are so generic, sometimes so personal, it makes it so complicated. And personally, I feel like asexuality and aromanticism are the identities of the LGBT community that give you the most doubts and imposter syndrome, because there's also a lot of pressure from people, other people, that go like but have you ever tried being a relationship? Have you ever tried sex? Maybe you'll actually like it, and then you hear it so many times that you start to question yourself as well, and you're like, Am I really sexual? Am I really romantic? But maybe I should try and, yeah, it's so complicated. Yeah,

Alesia Galati: 21:08

also, screw those people, yeah, yeah, oh my goodness, absolutely. I mean, so this is really being a parent. And one of my kids, he's at the age where, I mean, this could change as he goes through puberty, I don't know, but he's at the age where, like, kissing is like, Oh God, gross. Or, and that could literally be a commercial that's k jewelers, every kiss begins with K, and so they do a little smooch, and they give a gift, and he's just, oh god. Why did they do that? Oh, it's so gross. Or, like, if my husband comes up and he hugs me and he kisses my neck, then dad, ew, stop. It's literally a kiss. No one's doing anything appropriate here. And so we try to make that as, hey, you can feel that way. Also. You don't push that on other people. You don't need to make a big deal about it. Yeah, to be kissing in front of you for the rest of your life if it bothers you, and if you don't want to do it, that's okay. It's like normalizing this idea of if you feel that way, totally okay for you. Also don't make a big deal about it when other people are doing it, unless they're being inappropriate, right? Trying to balance this while still being like, trust yourself to my kids. Like, trust yourself do whatever works for you. But I can never see myself being like, did you try it? You know, to them? Yeah. So screw the people that say that. It really is something that I think is a spectrum, that people really have to identify for themselves, and also you're allowed to change your idea, yeah, absolutely, as you go. I told you before we started recording, but to tell the listeners, I remember a friend Reach Out and was like, we were talking back and forth about this aromanticism And how I identify as aromantic. And she was like, but you're married. How did that work? I was like, health insurance is a thing, and also I have a lot of trauma from being the oldest of five and having a lot of different names from my siblings. And there were like four different last names between my mom, me and my siblings and I have a lot of trauma around that. Most of it's religious trauma from people not all having the same last name. And so I wanted to have the same last name as my kids, that is it. And between health insurance and wanting to have the same last name as my kids, that was the decision. And we had a big party. We did not go into debt for it, and we had a lot of fun. We went on a honeymoon. Had a great time, and that was really enjoyable. And I would say the part that was romantic about the honeymoon was just being with my husband. That was it wasn't anything that was like flowers on the bed show that was cool. The champagne was cool. The Adventure of it was cool. But also I get the same feelings of contentedness sitting next to him while he's watching TV and I'm reading a book. So I don't consider it like romantic at all. And like I said before, the feelings that I have toward him are very similar to I want him to thrive. I want him to be his very best self. I want to do things for him that make him happy. I want to do things that make his life easier. And I also feel those things towards really close friends, where I want them to be so but I want them to be successful. And if I'm in a room with all of them, I'm not going to gravitate more towards my husband, I want to be with everybody. So just that's how I was. Like, nope, I really don't identify as being a very romantic person or alo romantic. And so I feel more on this spectrum or on this side of the spectrum, and perfectly contented with that. And. Just moving forward, but I'm allowed to change my mind if I decide that my definition of romance changes Absolutely it is something that you really just have to identify for yourself. But I think that books are such an impactful way to discover that and just learn more about yourself and the people around you, yes,

Margherita Scialla: 25:22

both fiction and non fiction, because they're both equally important.

Alesia Galati: 25:26

Yes, as readers, it is really important that we are incorporating the LGBTQIA plus community into our reading, whether that's through non fiction, fiction, etc. And so I love what you and Brittany created, the diverse baseline challenge. Have seen people who are posting about it and excited about it, and so give us a little bit of background to the diverse baseline challenge, what it is its purpose and how it works.

Margherita Scialla: 25:58

The diverse baseline challenge is specifically for reading books by non white and mixed authors. It started in I think it was November of 2023 Brittany and I were talking on DMS, on Instagram, and we were very angry and disappointed with the Goodreads Choice Awards again, because it was again, 99% white, and so we were discussing about the awards and some of the challenges that were already floating around, book talk and books around. And then we we came up with the idea of creating a new challenge, specifically that lasted the entire year, because we wanted people to stick with the idea of reading diversity and making an effort to do it all the time, and not just for one or two months, where people, especially the ones that are doing it, where it's performative, they do it or pretend to do it For a month or two and then forget about it. And we wanted to help people build habits of looking up by book authors and specifically searching for new books by non white authors, to maybe even look for books and genres that you're not usually used to, just to broaden your reading choices. For

Alesia Galati: 27:29

me, I need to be able to see my percentages. And when I looked at how my percentages for like bipoc authors versus white or unknown, right? Because some authors you just don't know. And so I just kind of get those together, seeing that I was so frustrated with myself, especially as someone who is like, yes, read bipoc authors. I'm part of the bipoc community. You should definitely be reading these books. It's important for our future. And like, I feel all of those things, but I was falling into the algorithm that book, and I'm a mood reader, it's still go with the mood. And so I had to be like when I saw that I had only read 25% of my books had been bipoc authors, which I know is probably more than a lot of people read. But still, I was disappointed in myself, and so I said, I want to change that and at least make it 45 at the time of this recording, I can happily say that I'm at 60% and I'm very happy with that choice. I feel like I have learned so much about people's experiences. I'm still enjoying the books that I'm reading. It's not like it was like, Oh well, these are different experiences, and so now I'm not enjoying it. No, I am definitely enjoying them. They're all the same tropes that I love. I just took a little more searching to say, Hey, I'm in the mood for a mafia romance. Where are the bipoc author mafia romances? Where are those ones? Let's get some of those in there. And so going with all right, I'm in the mood for this. But of the ones I have, or of the ones that I could pick from, where are those bipoc authors? And being intentional about that has allowed me to and regular check ins, and my percentages and tracking that stuff has allowed me to see it. Now, what I love about the diverse baseline challenge is that you guys have such a variety of things and like genres outside of just romance. So I almost exclusively read romance, and it did challenge me to say, Hey, what are some formats or some genres that I'm could potentially read, but I'm not currently reading? Maybe it's something that, if it's a historical, non fiction, I can listen to it instead of reading it, because I might visually be like, Oh my god, I cannot keep doing this, whereas, if I'm folding laundry, it's in my ears. Too bad you're gonna listen to it. It's always finding things that are gonna work for me. But I did love that you guys had, I know in one of. Months you had like a book of poetry, and I was like, Yeah, would have thought to read a book of poetry by a bipoc author. Why haven't I thought of doing that? I love poetry. I

Margherita Scialla: 30:12

also read mostly Romans. I think 80% of the books that I read are romance, and the 20% is fantasy. But I really like the fact that we chose different genres because I also wanted to branch out, especially in a lot of those genres that I really usually don't read, like horror or thriller. So I really like the fact that I had an excuse to finally try out genres that I usually don't pick up. And I even found some really cool books, new favorites in genres that I usually don't try. So that was really interesting. And I don't think that's for everyone, because we did a survey that we shared in our newsletter, and a lot of people shared that they were mostly romance readers, so they didn't do all the autistic genres prompt. But I personally feel like we should all at least try one or two genres that we don't usually try, because it's a pity that we don't go into those specific stories because they they're all unique in their own way, and I feel like we're missing out, yeah.

Alesia Galati: 31:23

And I also think, no, you might not find a book of poetry in the romance section, but horror and thriller like, I can think of specific books by bipoc authors that would fit into that that were still fantastic and had some smut in them.

Margherita Scialla: 31:42

Yeah? There's, there's also, like, fantasy Romans, horror Romans. You can find books that have multiple genres that can work for the prompt and still be something that you like,

Alesia Galati: 31:53

yeah? So you're doing it again in the new year. What can people expect when they join I know you also have, I believe it's a fable book club as well. Are you going to continue doing that? And what does that look like? Yes,

Margherita Scialla: 32:06

I have a fable Book Club, which is specifically for Romans. Because, as I said, I mostly read Romans this year. I try to do in the selection that people can choose every month, I try to put at least half, or sometimes all the options are books that could fit for the prompt of one of the prompts of that month for the diverse peace and talent. So I try to mix the two things that can help some people, especially those that are slow readers, so they don't have to read one additional book and have the stress of that next year, Brittany is also going to do a story graph. Read along. So you can also join that. If you don't want to read the books with me, you can join her story graph. Read along. Next year we're gonna do this year, because this comes out in 2025 this year we're doing again, the diverse baseline challenge, but we have changed some things because as a as I mentioned, we did a survey, and we wanted to know what people that participated, what they thought, and what, maybe advice that they had. A lot of people mentioned that it was really hard to follow the prompts, because we originally, in 2024 you had three prompts each month, in January, I remember it was one poetry, a book with a fat main character, and I think a Latina author, you had those three in January, and you had to read those three. And technically, you could choose to switch prompts. But many people felt guilty doing that they didn't, and then they felt especially the month readers that they couldn't really read and follow along. We changed that, and now it's a minimum of one book each month, and you can choose which prompt you want that month. We have a list of over 70 prompts. Wow, you have all the choices that you want, and you can choose what to read each month, but it's a minimum of one book. But we always encourage people to read more than one, especially the past readers, because they have no excuse read as many books as you want. You can choose the pace, you can choose the prompt. It's more like choose your own challenge. Build your own challenge.

Alesia Galati: 34:31

I like that, though. I think that that you're right. People who read a ton of books do not have any excuses, and that's where I think those percentages, yeah, me really help, because I read upwards of 250 books a year, until if 25% of those are bipoc authors, where, if I can change that to having even more books, then I'm amplifying based on the percentages. I'm amplifying a lot more voices with that percentage than I would with just a. Smaller percentage and just saying, Oh, well, I did my 12 books this year, but I also read 200 something other books. I don't think that you're really making the impact that you might want to be making by doing that. And so I agree people who read a lot more books fewer excuses. And I think we should challenge ourselves to read outside of our scope. I know for me, we're recording this in November, so a lot of people do their 10 before the end, and that always felt really restrictive to me of giving myself a TBR, especially as a mood reader. And so I shifted that. I said, Look, I'm gonna read two new books, two new authors. To me, I'm gonna read two backlog books, books from authors that I loved, that I want to get through some of their backlog. I want to finish two challenges. I want to read two books that were recommended by friends, and I want to read two new formats. And so one of those formats was graphic novel, because I don't read graphic novels, and then another one was a book of poetry, and that was based off of your challenge of seeing that book read a book of poetry, being like, I've never done that. And so let's challenge myself. I'm not putting myself in a box by saying that it has to be a specific 10 books before the end of the year. Let's mix it up and make it work for me. And then all the ones that I did post as potentials or options from my TVR are all books that I'm like, I could read those in the next two months, and the majority of them are bipoc authors, so that I would be more inclined to read the bipoc authors. And so having that front and center really helped me to be like, All right, these I'm checking my boxes, I'm doing my thing that I said I wanted to do, and I'm also reading diversity. And so that makes me one feel good about myself, but also feel good about being able to promote the author. Yeah, that tend to be not as promoted because the algorithm,

Margherita Scialla: 37:00

yeah, and I feel like it's a problem with some people that are participating. We've seen a pattern in the survey answers. Some people are doing it for self gratification. It really feels like that they want to complete the challenge because it's a challenge, not because they want to support by book authors. Some people don't even want to make the effort to look up books. They ask their as for specific lists, for specific recommendations, to vet authors that they should read. That is not the goal of the challenge. The goal is that you have to look up books either that fit the prompt or that you want to read, and that you have to make the effort to find these books by non white authors, and that it has to become an abbot so that you stop gravitating only towards white books. So many people participated in the challenge, so many people did it, like, with the good intentions, but also so many people are not fully there yet. Yeah,

Alesia Galati: 38:11

that's so frustrating, and I can imagine, especially after putting in so much work and effort to like, intentionally be like, No, let's make this better. Let's do better, guys, and then have people half ass. It is so frustrating, and so I'm so sorry that you like struggling with that, and people are approaching it in that sense. Here is to hopefully them changing their minds.

Margherita Scialla: 38:35

We changed some things for this new year. We losing the grip a little bit. Let's see if this year is better or not, and then if this one also, this version also doesn't work, we're gonna do the same thing next year and do a survey and try to improve the challenge. Hopefully one day we'll get the not perfect result, because I don't think there's perfection, but close to perfect,

Alesia Galati: 39:00

yeah. Thank you so much to you and Brittany for creating this, for putting in the time and the effort and the energy into being able to encourage people to diversify their shelves and to diversify their reading. So many props to you. Let's leave everyone with a challenge, because I think that you guys like challenges. So let's leave you with a challenge to really look at your numbers this year and look at last year's, look at 2020, four's numbers, and say, How did I show up? Did I show up the way I wanted to? Did I show up the way that I should? Let's look at that, and then how can we adjust and shift from there? If y'all need specific recommendations you're looking for, and like I could literally give you lists on lists I'm looking for, this trope, i. I got you. Here's five bipoc authors that have books that have these tropes. It is so easy to find these and for those of us who have been doing the work of curating these lists and compiling this information, there are so many resources out there. Follow bipoc creators. Follow people who read diversely. Join the baseline challenge, join the alphabet bipoc challenge. Join these things that are going to really push you, and also let it, especially if you're a mood reader, if you're like, wow, that book was really good. Read another one by that author. Yeah, keep going. It's okay. That's my challenge for everyone is to really take a look inside and assess your reading. I think that we could do better.

Margherita Scialla: 40:46

Yeah. I also want to say to the people that look at the numbers and see that they're disappointing still to not think it's the end of the word, you have time to improve. For example, when we thought of the challenge in 2023 my numbers, I was already reading by book authors, and I already read quite a few by that time. But when I did the end of the year wrap up, I still saw that it was like 42% if I remember correctly, and I had read like 110 books. Maybe, it maybe was two more books than another person. But considering I read quite a lot, I read at least 100 books a year, that was still a disappointing number for me. I also participated in the challenge this year, obviously, and I can proudly say that my number is higher. I read multiple books for the challenge, but also from my own TBR, and now it's like more than half, and I didn't even see the switch. Don't regret reading more books. I want people to stop. I don't know catastrophizing that they're not going to read white authors anymore and things like that. It's going to be okay. You're not even going to notice that you're missing them, or things like that.

Alesia Galati: 42:13

It's so true. I mean, I don't like many of the books that I read this year have been banger after banger, and most of them are by bipoc authors. I don't miss it at all. I don't feel like I missed out on certain books this year. I feel like everything I read I loved and I enjoyed reading. Yes, there are a few that were like terrible but actually, almost every single one of those was by a white author that I DNFed that. And

Margherita Scialla: 42:49

also, if you're not reading the currently popular books, it's not going to be a tragedy, trust me. I

Alesia Galati: 42:57

know I always get sorely disappointed in the popular books, I'm like, Really guys, I do not recommend going with that route. So many indie authors create such incredible stories and such incredible Yeah, books that it is worth looking outside of your algorithm and following bipoc authors, bipoc creators, people who are curating these lists and are reading diversely, follow those people. They have so many recommendations like we put in so much work for these recommendations. Guys,

Margherita Scialla: 43:36

yeah, and now more than ever, I think you should definitely support BIPOC authors especially in the ones in this fear you will find the most diversity.

Alesia Galati: 43:47

Yes, because the big five, or whatever they're called, The publishing houses, yeah, they don't care, and they're going to follow where the Goodreads lists are going. They're going to follow that information. They're not going to follow what a lot of the rest of us are reading. And so it is up to us to support those indie authors and to push them towards their goals and help them and support them and uplift their stories, because they are so impactful. Margherita, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for being on I feel like we had such a great conversation. Where can people find you, get to know you, connect with you online, read your books, etc. I

Margherita Scialla: 44:30

am on Tiktok and Instagram. I think this. The username is the same. It's the Margherita dot s. I have a sub stack where sometimes I share silly thoughts, like the difference between sexuality and aromanticism. If you want, you can find the post on my sub stack, but I also share regularly book lists, especially for the diverse baseline challenge. It's usually my TBR, but I am a mood reader, so I. Never really read the books from the TBR, but find new books anyway to read for those prompts. But that's another story. I'm also on Instagram and tick tock as Robin. Joe Margaret, I

Alesia Galati: 45:13

will make sure that we have that linked in the description in the show notes, for anyone who is doing other things while they're listening and want to make sure to connect with you again. Thank you so much.

Margherita Scialla: 45:24

Thank you for inviting me. You.