Rae Shawn on Navigating Grief in Romance

Romance novels are an incredible way to navigate all aspects of our lives, including grief. Do you find yourself struggling to process loss or looking for stories that reflect the complexities of healing? Today on We Read Smut, we have a special interview with author Rae Shawn, who shares her personal journey of healing after loss and how she beautifully integrates themes of grief into her romance novels. Join us for a heartfelt and insightful conversation on processing grief and finding love on the other side.

Rae Shawn is a candle-buying, night-owl, who overthinks everything, but manages to get things done. She writes contemporary Black romances that’ll have you up in arms for the heroes, and sometimes, even the villains. When she isn’t writing, she’s dancing around her living room or watching reruns of Supernatural and all the anime she can find. Rae lives on the East Coast but will never forget her summer-living Los Angeles days. 

In this episode, we're discussing:

• How Rae Shawn's personal experiences with grief have inspired her to write stories that showcase healing and reconnection.
• The importance of showing that grief is a lifelong journey, with moments that can still hit you years after a loss.
• Why it's crucial to portray a world with diverse characters, including queer and trans friends, reflecting the reality we live in.
• How romance novels can explore different kinds of loss, not just from death, but also the mental and emotional taxing of losing parts of yourself.

Ready to read stories that feel like a warm hug and a good cry all at once? Tune in to this amazing conversation with Rae Shawn. 

CONNECT WITH RAE SHAWN:

Website

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Running list of books mentioned (Doc)

Transcript

Alesia Galati 0:00

Romance novels are such an incredible way to navigate all the aspects of our lives, including grief. Today we have a special interview with author Ray Sean all about how she navigated grief as well as integrated it into parts of her story in showing and processing her healing after losing someone she loved. Listener discretion is advised. This podcast contains mature content intended for adult audiences only. Hello, Ray. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. So if you could start by telling everybody a bit about your author journey.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Yes, thank you for having me. So I got started officially in 2020, right before the pandemic. Did not know that was happening. It just kind of aligned and I was like, oh, okay, here we are. But I had knee surgery in December 2019. And my body doesn't like me. So it was taking a lot longer to heal and figure out exactly what the issues were like following like post surgery. So I was in bed, unable to really do anything, but watch TV, read books, and I was losing my mind respectfully. It's already half gone most of the time. I was watching some random weird play on Tubi or YouTube. I don't know what it was on, but it was trash. And it was like it was so bad. And I was like, I could write something that is more cohesive than this. And I have nothing but time. So I started writing a romantic suspense. I think it was like 80k. And I wrote it in two weeks. Wow. Because I had nothing else to do. So after that, I was like, ooh, I actually wrote a whole book. Maybe I can do this. And I put it out like literally, I think the week before COVID was like fully announced. I was just like, and yeah, like when I was younger, I wrote poetry and I had started a few books and I would do short stories in like middle school and high school. But I never really published anything besides like school related stuff. And then I kind of paused because I was like, nobody wants to hear what I have to say. And then I finished that book and was just like fuck it. And it's no longer up. It's now an exclusive that I'm working on trying to figure out if I am gonna put on my website or just keep for conventions, but that's how we started.

Alesia Galati 2:50

I love that. Yeah, it's always interesting hearing how people start. There's usually some inkling of writing when they're younger, where maybe they start and they stop, or they write short stories and then they stop. I am constantly fighting myself to publish a book just because I'm like, I don't want to go into the author space. Like I really like being a reader and being in the reader space. And so the idea of having to promote a book, but then also kind of navigate that is it safe to review other authors because we're co-workers kind of now, right? Like, how does that work? And so I'm always really hesitant, but I wrote a whole ass book.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

I'm just saying you should do it. I'm an enabler. So I love it. Maybe you can review books that aren't in your genre or your subgenre or something like that.

Alesia Galati 3:57

I don't read books in that anything outside of what I wrote. Okay, so I'm gonna tell y'all what I wrote. I wrote it was my way of processing, and we're gonna talk about this today. This kind of the whole topic, grief of my way of processing my mom passing away. And when my mom passed away in 2008, nope, 2019, my sister and I started a podcast after that called Two Sisters and a Cult, where we talked about cults and like relating them to the one we grew up in. Because when we couldn't ask my mom anymore, why the heck did you join that cult? What was happening? And so we did about 30 to 40 episodes exploring different cults, cried, they're depressing, right? So we stopped because they're so depressing. But we were able to kind of process our grief in a really intimate way because me and my sister were the only girls of the five kids. And so to be able to one talk to my sister every couple weeks was just golden, especially around 2019, 2020, right? If you think that time frame, whew, we needed community and support. Yeah. So that was really impactful. But then I wanted to kind of take it a step further and process my grief on another level. Yes, I was able to talk through it with my sister and stuff, but let's try it again. And so I wrote a book that included a parent passing away, very similarly to how my mom did. And I think for that reason, I don't know that I would release it just because it is so intimate, and I don't know that I could tell opinions on that story because it is perceived on a whole different type of level because it's so personal. Yes, but you beautifully weave, you see a cool segue there, right? You beautifully weave grief into your stories. I recently read Uncovering Her Cravings, and that is the first in your Big City Small World series, it is, which follows quite a few kind of interconnected friends, right? Because it's not like a girl group, and then you follow the girl group, it's more of interconnected friends on all the sides, which I love. I love big friend groups because they're either really toxically fun, like, but also like super supportive, which I love. It's it's kind of a combination of let's just find ourselves. We're in our 30s, let's get our shit together. But you weave it so beautifully in that story in particular. So, give us a little bit about that story for anyone who's tell me more, and how you interwove grief into that one specifically.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah, so I've had a lot of loss throughout my life, and it kind of just comes in weird increments. And so I was dealing with my grandmother died when I was seven. That was a long time ago, but I'm still processing it because I was just really close to her and I only remember certain things, and it just hits me weird sometimes. And after I put out the first book that I put out, I started writing that book because it was around her birthday, and I was trying to deal with that. And so it follows Leilani, who is in her 30s, and Alexander is in his mid-20s, and he met her through her best friend because they were in college together, so Leilani and the sister justice would hang out at the house, and he was like, Ooh, another friend, because my sister ignores me. And then he got older and he was like, Ooh, another friend. How you doing? But what basically happens is she sees him as just her friend's kid brother, and then when he's in college, he starts flirting with her, and she doesn't really think anything of it because again she's just kind of seeing him as like 16, and now he's like a whole grown-up, and he's I'm gonna show you that I'm a grown-up. Around the time graduation comes, she's feeling vulnerable because it's around Mother's Day, so she's thinking about her mom, and he's I know what's bothering her, and I want to comfort her. And I'm horny. So let me just comfort her in the way that I know how right now. And she's kind of like, Why am I doing this? But I like it. Oh, why am I here? And a friend of his calls, and she he was always known as like a playboy, so she sees this person's name pop up, like, oh my god, I just had sex with my friend's younger brother, and he's a playboy. What was I thinking? And she kind of tries to avoid him for several years after that. During that time and throughout the book, she's navigating her grief with her mom because she's never really fully gotten over it because her mom died when she was young, which is my nod to my grandmother, even though it's not my mom. And just trying to build connections and understand that yes, you've had this loss, but you can still make connections with people because everyone isn't gonna leave you. Yeah. Oh, emotional. And so she's she never really lets herself get really close to anyone. But as she goes through the book, she realizes with the help of her dad, she actually does have friends that she's let in, and Alex is one of them.

Alesia Galati 9:48

Yes. So I'm cheesing over here for people who can't see me. I'm like, yes. Because grief is idom, we will get to that, I promise, and we'll be more serious with that. But you set us up right out the gate with the prologue of them banging. Okay, this went in my banging in 10% or less tag because hello, Alex. I was just like, yes, I am here for all of this, and I love it. But to your point, I think that grief, no matter how long it has been, there are still things that move us or impact us or will remind us of certain things. I was listening to a podcast recently that a client was doing, and she was talking about how she was dealing with grief after her father had passed away, and how she was in the middle of a CVS with a carpeted floor, and she's just like sobbing in the aisle because they're playing a song that made her think of her dad, and it had been years, and another woman comes up to her and is it's gonna be okay. God's got you. Like, I'm not religious at all, but like that is so sweet. That is very sweet, like thing. Yeah. And like I feel the same way. There are certain like songs that really impacted me after my mom passed away. And it's been years, but it still feels like it was just yesterday that I saw her. And like, even thinking about like the immediate time after, so we'll get back and forth with this. Immediately after, I've been biting my nails since I was like in kindergarten. And so I was trying to grow my nails out, and I was like, Oh, my mom would love this nail polish cover. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna call her and tell her about it. And then the dread feeling of I can't call her fuck like that feeling, or even like the weeks directly after driving to the store because I have to go pick up groceries or whatever, and just being like, How is the rest of the world moving? Like I didn't just lose the most important person in my life. How? How is this y'all aren't supposed to just be moving on like everything's fine because it's not fine?

SPEAKER_01 12:21

It's the dread and the anger and the sadness all rolled in so long.

Alesia Galati 12:26

Yes, and I think that grief is something so universally felt, but still such a lonely experience because we don't talk about it, because we don't commiserate and reach out to people how who have been through it. And when I think when you're younger and you go through the experience, it allows you to in the like you don't want it to happen, but it allows you to be able to help and support your friends, your family, other people that go through it. I think about when my one of my friends lost her dad. And like just being able to be a support for her and knowing what to say, knowing what not to say. Because if you haven't gone through it, it's very easy to just say, oh, they're in a better place. That doesn't help anybody at all. No, please don't say that. But you think, oh, that'll be helpful or there's no pain anymore. No, they should be here and in pain. I don't care. Who cares? I need them. How dare you? Yes. But when you've gone through it, you're able to commiserate a lot differently and feel that a lot differently to support other people, which it sucks that you have to go through it to be able to understand it. But it's such a universally felt feeling that we will go through at some point in our life, but it can be such a lonely experience. And one thing that I loved about what happened with the dad and the conversation with the father, where she's, hey, like you never moved on after mom. What the heck? Like I'm I have all these internal things because of you never moving on, and I'm not really sure if they're right anymore or if they're right for me. And so why? And actually, I'm reading right now, they call him Nas by Oh yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

The oh yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

My mom likes that book. She just ran it down like a book summary for me, but in detail, I was like, okay, mom, okay, calm down, take a breath, repeat that. What happened?

unknown 14:34

Yes.

Alesia Galati 14:35

And very similarly, I'm thinking his dad passes had passed away when he was younger, and his mom never remarried. And so having that same very similar conversation of like, how come I have to move on? Because I lost somebody, but you never did. And just the explanation of no, that person was my person. That was my soulmate. And sure, people got needs, and they might hook up here and there, and that's normal. But no one felt right, and that's okay. And they're so content and happy with where they are that they don't necessarily need another person to fulfill them. And I think that it's such a beautiful juxtaposition to our main characters who like are at a point in their life where they are open to love. And that's okay too, right? Like, it doesn't have to be either or after losing someone, it can be and it could be either. And I think that yeah, you just you portray that conversation so beautifully, and just being able to open her eyes to say, wait, I actually do have really incredible people in my life, and I unknowingly have opened up to people, even though I didn't really want to. Yeah. I love how moody she is. Not moody, just grumpy. She's moody. She's moody too, yes. But just that grumpy sunshine, which I don't think was like meant to happen, but it just kind of happened with them. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

It's funny because I think most of my I have an author friend, uh Mika James. Her favorite thing to point out is that all of my female main characters are like these super strong independent women who might consider folding for him. But it's he gotta work for it. Like, she's not gonna just bend over and be like, okay, hey, she's getting my husband. She's like, that's you. I was like, I don't even like people, so that ain't me. She's that's not what I meant. I was like, okay. You mean the the independent part? She's yes, I'm like, oh okay. So I think that most of my female main characters usually end up being like kind of grumpy because it's just like, why are you trying to interrupt my plan? Yes.

Alesia Galati 17:04

So I got a plan. I have peace, kind of, but I've got peace. I'm very hard fought for this.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

You are trying to take me from this place to that place with this one with you.

Alesia Galati 17:16

Yes, exactly. So good. So you also have queer rep in the book with some, I believe you have a trans character that is one of the best friends. You have Safic best friends in there as well. Why was that important for you to have, as I said with Naema Simone in the episode a couple back, the world we live in reflected in your book because you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 17:49

I'm black and I'm a woman. So, like by being that, I'm automatically the other in certain books. And I'm not gonna other anybody. I'm doing a reflection of the reality that I grew up in. I had a lot of friends who were queer, and so it was just super natural for me to just put them in there and I didn't really think anything of it. I was just like, oh yeah, this sapphic couple getting married. Oh, the trans woman and her boyfriend and the inter-u-racial relationship. It just was natural because that's what I grew up around, and so I don't know how to not put it in a book. If it wasn't there, it would be weird. That's when you should be concerned. It's just like, are you okay? I've tried to focus on just the two main characters and what's going on with them, and then you still get this story of the side queer people because that's the homies, and you need to know what's going on with them. I can't. You have to, I need to see the reflection. And I realize that most people are some level of queer, even if they don't want to admit it. I I say what I say it. Um, but I realize that like I don't even think about it until someone points it out. But almost all of my friends are queer women or queer non-binary people that just be like, Okay, what's up? What are we doing? I'm like, I don't know, what are we doing? Do we have to do some particular type of thing? I I'm asexual, so I don't like when I say I don't like people, I look I don't like people. I I I'm demisexual, so like you gotta earn it, which I guess is why my character, my women are always like, you're interrupting my life. But I think that because I always look at other people's relationships and I am like the silent observer type of person that because I see what I see, I put that in my books is what I see. So it's just yes, those are two women. Yes, that is a trans woman, yes, that is two men, yes, that is four people. Why are we wh why is that weird to you?

Alesia Galati 20:06

It's not meant to be weird, it's a normal, y'all. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

That part, like, why are you looking at folks like that? You're the weird one now.

Alesia Galati 20:14

Yep, you're making this weird, it's on you. Yes, I totally agree as someone who is bisexual and aromantic. I'm like, this is just the world we live in. It's fine, all of it is fine as long as it's consenting adults, y'all. Like that part. But I love that you have queer folks in your books and that you showcase this. Now, you also have a sports series that I have not read. I do own one of them. I'm looking in my Kindle, but I'm like, I actually own one of these, so I'm gonna go read it after I finish. I'm reading Naima Simone's Huntsman after I finish that one. That one is I gotta finish that. It's so good. So, so good. Definitely, people pre-order it. You can get extra like charms and like an insert and all that stuff if you order for. Oh, it's already pre-ordered. Yes, please do. But you have a sports romance series as well. So tell us a bit about that one.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

For me, grief isn't just like someone passing away, it's losing different parts of yourself or losing people in different types of ways. And so with the sports romance series, it's six adopted siblings. We get five brothers and their baby sister, and they're all adopted in like different time periods, and so there's twins and then three other brothers, and then their baby sister, and we start with the youngest boy, and that series I threw together haphazardly because it started as like a short in my holiday novella, and here we go. Mika James again. Mika on the timeline. Listen, I was like, ma'am, why do you do that on the timeline? Mika on the timeline was like, So where is this full story? And I was like, it's a short, it's just a vignette dream in this holiday novella. And she was like, nah, I need a whole book. And I was like, I hate you. I love you. I hate you. So I was just like, okay. And then other people were like, oh yeah, where's the rest of it? What I read it. I was like, that's it. And I'm like, it was literally supposed to be like 4,000 words, must it. I'm like, okay, I can't just write this one book. I can't, because that's not how my brain works. I don't know how to do a standalone. I'm trying. So I'm like, okay, what is his story? How do we get here? And so we birthed six siblings. And so in this series, you're gonna follow the five brothers, and then their sister is gonna spin off another series. And basically, Alvin is the youngest boy, and he is trying to win back his college sweetheart that he accidentally lost because he's a little hardheaded, you know, early 20s, college time, and he was a drafted rookie, so he was super excited. She still had another year of school. He was like, I'm drafted, move in with me, do these things. And she's like, bruh, I got shit to do. Like, I can't just drop everything. And she's like, I need a moment, I need a break or something, basically. And he misunderstood that it's like she didn't want to be with him anymore because he was processing anxiety from when he was younger and not really knowing how to navigate interpersonal relationships. And so he was like, She left me, she just didn't want to be with me. And he accidentally walked into another relationship because he thought they were broken up, and she was just like who bet. And after he finally figures out that they weren't technically broken up, he didn't know how to fix it, so he just didn't.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

And it took him a minute. His siblings, as siblings do, ribbed him real hard for being the biggest silly man walking. And I love their relationship because we get to see them just like in Big City Small World, the friends are always like at each other's throats about doing better because they want to see growth. The brothers do similar, except there's a group chat, and so you get to see them going off on each other in the group chat, and sometimes they'll leave their sister out and she'll be like, Hey, I just found this thing out. And they'd be like, Oh, yeah, we already knew.

Alesia Galati 24:45

And she's like, Y'all love me out of the group chat again.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Do y'all y'all gonna have to remember that there are six of us just because all of y'all are playing football does not matter to me. So yeah, they all play professionally, and she is working to become an Olympic beach volleyball player. And so we get the sports, and it's just a lot of fun. All of them have something that they're navigating, but it's not necessarily a physical loss, it's more like something mentally taxing that they've been trying to figure out and understand for most of their life, and it kind of stems back to their adoption and what they remembered from when they were younger. That was scary to write because I know people who were adopted, and day job, I talk to people from varying backgrounds, and so I've talked to a lot of people who were adopted, and I did a lot of research for it. I'm just like, okay, I want to present this as accurately as possible because I don't want to come across someone who has had to give up their child or who went through adoption and was like, this is a poor representation. So every time I wrote a book, I was like, how would someone feel like this trying to do that? Which gave me anxiety. Um, so I was very much Alvin every time I write a book. Um, but yeah, I have three out in that series and two more, one I'm working on and another one. And the brothers, I love them so much. They are a hot mess.

Alesia Galati 26:27

I love that, and I think that it's such an important representation. I don't think I see a lot of adopted main characters. I'm trying to think, I could probably count on one hand, maybe the number of books, and I read hundreds every year. So, not a lot that really showcased that. And now I'm trying to think of like what is one that I read that had good representation. I couldn't even tell you, but I have a friend and she was adopted, and hearing her talk about being adopted and like having a good childhood, right? Like not feeling like she was quote unquote missing out on anything. But then when she finally did find her birth parents, they had already passed away. And that was after her parents had passed away. And so, like, almost like this double grief of like, was it better to have not known them or and not lost them? Or would it have been better to have known them and then lost them so quickly after getting to know them? And the way she talks about it is just so beautiful and how she talks about just not necessarily feeling like identity crisis, right? Because I think that it really just depends on your personality on whether you consider, like, yeah, I was adopted as part of like, okay, I have an identity crisis. I'm not who I am or who am I, and trying to discover yourself, right? Like, I don't think it has to be that every time. Um, but it could very well be, right? And so I love that you took such care with making sure that you're reflecting this in an accurate way. And of course, that's the reporter in you to make sure that things are like, let's make sure all the T's are crossed, the I's are dotted, and everything is accurate.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

You don't want somebody coming back and being like, actually, okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Well, first off, this is fiction, so I've created the liberties, but like to an extent.

Alesia Galati 28:34

We don't want to do harm. I wish people understood that.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Well, the books have not been coming out lately.

Alesia Galati 28:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Yeah. Yeah. Some of them should have stayed in draft. Yes.

Alesia Galati 28:49

But yes, it's always very interesting to see that. So I'm really happy that you took that approach. And I'm excited to dive in to that. You said there are three books out now, and then two more, one that you're working on, and then another one.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yeah. So the first one is Fumble Recovery, it's Alvin and Alani, and it's a second chance, and then the second one is Cosmo and Jalissa, and he's best friends, lovers, and then it's Parker, which is the twin of Cosmo, and Saheeli, and it completes their little four quad group friends, and it's like dislike-ish with benefits to lovers, to friends to lovers.

Alesia Galati 29:36

I love the dislike with benefits. I have to say that's one of my favorites because it's like the dick is good, but the attached to the dick is not, and so like boundaries are really important here, but also like get on your back.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

So with that one, it's I think the most sex themes I've ever written in a single book. I think. If not, it's the more intense ones, and it's mostly because like their love language is hate for a long time. And then they realize, oh, I don't just dislike you, I don't hate you, I am attracted to you, like mentally, physically, emotionally, and I'm trying to fight it.

Alesia Galati 30:24

I hate how I feel about you.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yeah, so I think it's the most intense sex scene in the most intense argument. I think the most sex scenes are actually in one of the Big City Small World books. It is, it's uncovering her petty. Nice.

Alesia Galati 30:43

So we're gonna go to the street. Or it's a dream.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

No, it's dreams, uncovering her dreams. I'm just saying he's a musician, she's a dancer, he's poetic with the mouse. And she likes to roll them hips.

Alesia Galati 31:01

Yes. Love it. Should see our faces, like you watch it on YouTube, but like we're like, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Just saying. I'm just saying. I was just like, yo, can y'all have a conversation for his high camion's like, no, my conversation is with the nether area on this person, okay? I'm busy. Get your mouth off his dick.

Alesia Galati 31:31

So yeah, that's what we're gonna go read right after this guy. Oh my god, that's so awesome. Yes, oh, that's so good. So you said that the next one will be in the endless night. That one will see that next, and follow Ray on Instagram to see when that comes out next. So definitely go check out Ray. So if someone is like, all right, yes, I want to buy all the books, I want to read all the stories, I want to see all the scenes, where can they buy your books, follow you on social media, and all of that fun stuff.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah, so you can follow me on all TikTok, Instagram, and threads at Ray Sean Stories, and then my website is loveraishawn.com, and you can buy my books directly from there, or you can get them on Amazon. If you get them on Amazon, you don't get signed copies and goodies, just saying. And I also have a Patreon which is Ray Sean Stories, and I'm working currently on a sapphic mafia romance that's um a serialized story there with a few other things in the works for my patrons. So if you want to see other stories from me, they'll be there. I'm usually on threads because talking on Instagram is weird, but I probably post more information on Instagram and just random rambling. So if you just want to see me talk about stuff, which people have started to point out at this point, I'm just supposed to be working. Mind your business. I'm at my desk, okay? The day job is day jobbing, okay? Leave me alone and enjoy my rambling. But I'm usually on threads if you want to chit chat and have questions or just want to see whatever I'm randomly thinking about and working on. I usually put it there. But you buy my books on my website. You get goodies.

Alesia Galati 33:30

Yes, we want goodies and we want signed copies. I have to say probably 70% of the books I own are signed in some way. Like I like my signed copies.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Because it's just a little piece of the author.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

I'm waiting on I just got some special editions that I pre-ordered. I can't even tell you what they are right now because I was just like, click, stop spending money. Like, I don't even oh, Evelyn Lee, the special edition box that's coming out in yes, it's what in October. I'm like, I'm one click, give it to me. I've already read the book. Now I just want the special edition. I missed Erica Alexander's. I was sad about that.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

I wanted it. But anywhere, special editions are fine. And signed books are fun.

Alesia Galati 34:25

Oh, perfect. And we'll make sure we have links for all of your stuff in the show notes and the YouTube description for anyone who's going off and doing other things. We got you. Be sure to go connect with Ray. Ray, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for being on and for sharing your stories with us. I appreciate you so much.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Thank you for having me.