Gabriella Gamez on Librarians in Love, Brother’s Best Friend, and Latinx Character Dynamics

Let's talk about the absolute chaos demon that these librarians' love lives are. This week, I am sitting down with Gabriella Gamez to talk all about her Librarians in Love series. We dive into her books The Next Best Fling, Kiss Me Maybe, and her brand-new release, Second First Dates. Gabby shares her journey navigating traditional publishing, the intentional choices behind writing ace, graysexual, and demisexual characters, and how romance novels allow us to unpack deeply complex family dynamics like machismo, parental favoritism, and the beauty of found family. 

Gabriella Gamez is a Mexican American author from South Texas. She writes about incredibly messy, well-meaning women trying their best and accidentally falling in love. When she’s not writing, she can be found drinking copious amounts of coffee, wasting too much time playing video games, and obsessing over other people’s books.

In this episode, we're discussing:

• How working in a physical library environment during a global shutdown sparked the initial concepts and characters for her debut novel.
• Why the financial freedom and structural boundaries of traditional publishing appealed to her over the total control of the indie author route.
• When visibility on the asexual spectrum shifts from a missing media trope to a deeply personal reclamation of graysexual and demisexual identities on the page.
• How centering two Latinx leads opens up a vital space to challenge intergenerational trauma, parental favoritism, and heteronormative expectations within families.
• Why writing an unlikable heroine provides a realistic look at how childhood wounds and family dynamics shape the protective cycles of adulthood.

CONNECT WITH GABRIELLA GAMEZ:

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BOOKS/AUTHORS MENTIONED:

The Next Best Fling by Gabriella Gamez (Amazon | Bookshop)

Kiss Me Maybe by Gabriella Gamez (Amazon | Bookshop)

Second First Dates by Gabriella Gamez (Amazon | Bookshop)

Adrienne Thurman Episode

Margherita Scialla Episode

Running list of books mentioned (Doc)

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Affiliate Disclosure: Some of the links in these show notes are affiliate links. If you make a purchase or borrow a book through these links, I may earn a small commission at zero extra cost to you.

Connect with Alesia:
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Running list of books mentioned (Doc)

This podcast was produced by Galati Media.
Proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective.

Transcript

Intro: The Absolute Chaos of Librarians in Love

Alesia Galati 0:00

Let's talk about the absolute chaos demon that these librarians' love lives are. Today we have Gabriela Gomez to talk all about her librarians in love series. I had so much fun chatting through each of her books. We talk through the next best fling, kiss me, maybe, and then finally her book that released just yesterday, as this episode is coming out. The book titled Second First Dates, where we follow Letty and Julian as they navigate very terrible dates, a little bit of brother's best friend, lots of force proximity, but of course, librarians in love. Listener discretion is advised. This podcast contains mature content intended for adult audiences only. Hello, Gabby. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. When I read your first two books, which the third one is out now, but the first two books, which are the next best fling and kiss me maybe. I was like, I need to have Gabby on my podcast because we need to talk about these books. Please and thank you. Tell us a bit about who you are if people don't know you. Shame. I was like, shame, y'all. Come on, get it together. And a bit about your author

Finding Direct Inspiration Behind the Shelves During a Global Lockdown

Alesia Galati 1:21

journey.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

To be fair, there are a lot of books out there. There are a lot of authors out there. The yet to be discovered thing, I feel like that's always a great thing because there are always people who are discovering me for the very first time, even though I've been here for a while. And I always appreciate those new readers. But thank you so much for having me on here to talk all things second, first dates, and librarians in love. So I am Gabriela Gomez. My first book came out in 2024, and that was the next best fling. And that one was inspired by when I was working at a library during COVID time. We all know how that was. So I needed a little joy in my life, was actually one of the first romances that I had started writing, because I knew pretty much like all my life that I wanted to be a writer and that I wanted to pursue traditional publishing. But I just always assumed that it would be in YA because I was a big reader of YA growing up in middle school and high school, which was also around the time that I had started writing my own, we'll call them books, but that's a generous term for what they were back then. So that's always what I had in the back of my mind is what I was going to do, like whenever I did get published, because something about me I knew was going to happen one day, and it did, but just not the way that I thought it would. So yes, it was around COVID time when I was working in the library, come in the first day, everything's semi-normal. Get home, get a call from my boss. Hey, library's shutting down, we're closing. And I'm like, do I still have a job? Wow, yeah. Which I did. It was just we closed down, so we weren't allowing any patrons to come in. We eventually let in people to use the computer and stuff like that, but not for browsing, which was very odd. Just didn't feel like I had the true library working experience for that first year, but then eventually got it back as we started opening up. But just as all of that was happening, I just remember I was shelving one day and it's like a very physical activity. Your mind runs, or you listen to music, or you're basically in your head as you're doing all of these things. Like, how am I gonna entertain myself? And then that's kind of how the next best fling came to be because it was like scenes from that book that were just in my head, or just voices in my head, which I know sounds odd, but if you're a writer, you know that we all have voices in our head, it's our characters speaking to us. And so that's how that book came to be, and then pursued traditional publishing with that. That was, I think, maybe the second or third book that I had ever queried, and then ended up getting an agent with that one right away, which was wild. Because I mean, if you've ever queried, if you were ever been a writer pursuing traditional publishing, it's rough out there. It's rejection after rejection, or worse, it's just complete silence for months and months, and then finally they hit you with pass. So that was kind of a wild experience. Got the agent right away, got a book deal shortly after that, which was just wild. And here I am today.

Choosing the Traditional Publishing Path: Finances, Control, and Free Industry Resources

Alesia Galati 4:39

That's so interesting. I'm curious why the traditional route was so appealing to you. Like you said, you'd always known that you wanted to go the traditional route. We interview indie and traditionally published authors here, and I'm just I'm always curious on like why you decide to go the direction you go.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

I know for me, the cost is a big thing. So the one thing about traditional publishing is like you don't pay at all for an agent to read your book or for publishers to read or anything like that. You don't necessarily need to hire an editor as long as you're drafting and like redrafting and like editing like as cleanly as possible and just doing that all of yourself and maybe relying a little on critique partners and like any like alpha or beta readers that you can just find on your own just through making friends, through the community, all of that completely free for all of the hardship and rejection that comes with traditional publishing. Everything is free. You don't have to pay for anything. And the other thing is of like how opaque it is, like just to know and learn how the industry works and like how you get an agent and sort of things like that. I think being very active in the bookish community and the writer community online really helps to make those things more transparent and give you the knowledge that you need to know in order to go forward and continue to have that avenue be as free as possible. So you're not paying for the information that you need either. You can. There are people who try. I don't recommend doing that because there are always so many different free ways to know what you need to know in order to move forward in the best way possible and for your book to end up in the right hands. And that's always been the biggest thing for me is the cost. So it's like when you're agented, you get the book deal, your agent gets 15% of whatever your advanced number is, and then the rest of that money is yours. I don't want to say it's like a more steady way of being paid for your work, but when you compare it to being indie published where you're doing all of that work yourself and paying all of the cost yourself, that can add up, especially if you don't necessarily know what you're doing, which I feel like I definitely would not know what I am doing. I would definitely need like the other way of talking more to indie authors and what they have done in the past and what they recommend if I ever did want to go that route. But that was just that was why I went to traditional publishing too. And also, I am not a control freak. I know if you're a control freak and you're a writer, indie publishing is probably the way for you to go. You control literally every single avenue of that. I am just like, that overwhelms me. I would rather someone else take the reins on that. And so, yeah, like there are definitely pros and cons to both, especially like the type of personality you have and if you know yourself. There's so many different things to keep in mind, definitely high pros and high cons for both. But that was just my experience going into it and why I did want to pursue trad publishing versus indie publishing, which I'm not opposed to like for the future of going hybrid, there are a lot of really amazing authors who do both. I just don't think I know enough about indie publishing to do that yet.

Traditional Book Titling Realities: Why Your Publisher Chooses the Title

Alesia Galati 8:00

Yeah, that definitely makes sense. We had Adrien Thurman on at the end of last season, a black debut author, and I was asking her about the titling. And she was like, oh no, I didn't come up with that.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Somebody else picked the title. Yeah, exactly. That's the thing too. It's like the titles, my first two titles, I didn't come up with that. I had different titles, and they were like, I don't know if we really liked it. And I was like, okay, that's fine. We'll change it.

Alesia Galati 8:28

With the exchange of money, I feel like you have to it's the give and take, right? And you have to decide.

Deep Dive into The Next Best Fling: The Ultimate Fake Dating Love Square

Alesia Galati 8:35

Let's talk about your first book, The Next Best Fling. I feel like this is the most magical love square that turns into not. That is, oh God, I just love it so much. So tell everybody a bit about it. If you haven't read it again, Shame. But if you haven't read it, what is it about?

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yeah, so the next best fling follows Marcella, who has been in love with her best friend slash college ex for a really long time. And then when he gets engaged, she decides, you know what? It is time for me to move on. This has gone on for too long. I now that this is serious now, this man's about to be married, I need to not have these feelings at all, and I need to do something about that, right? Before she can, she goes to the engagement party where her best friend's older brother comes into town, gets super drunk at the engagement party, and then decides that he's going to tell his brother's fiance his feelings, gonna confess his feelings, and basically upend the whole engagement before they even make it down the aisle, whatever. And so Marcella overhears this, and she decides that she is going to stop him and be like, hey, you can't do this. You're gonna basically ruin your entire relationship with your brother and your family, and there are gonna be consequences to this that you are not prepared for. Just you're really drunk right now, just come back home with me, sleep it off on my couch. In the morning, you will have a clear head, everything will be fine, right? And so she does that. And then the morning after, they show up to brunch together, and then quickly realizes that everyone there thinks that they hooked up the night before. Because everyone saw them leave together, made their own assumptions, they are now coming to this brunch together, and they all make their wrong assumption, right? And it's not like they can tell them the truth because they don't want to blow Theo's cover, and so they decide to fake date after that, and then maybe they're growing more feelings for each other, they're trying to get over the liking people that they really should not be liking at all because they're in a relationship with each other, actually. It's kind of weird.

Alesia Galati 11:06

Oh, it's such a chaos demon, and I love that so much because there's just something wonderful about watching other people's train wrecks.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Oh, yeah. Oh, 100%. I'm like, give me the tea.

Alesia Galati 11:21

Where's the tea, please? And so I feel like you do that so wonderfully. And what I love is there's that fake dating aspect, right? Because then now they're like, okay, now we have to date for pretensies because no one's supposed to know. The brother, who's the also the best friend, is an ass. And so half the time I wanted to hit Marcella upside the head and be like, Do you not see the sweet baby that is Theo? Come on, come on, he's the sweetest. That other guy's a jerk. You don't need him. We don't need him in our lives. Exactly. Eventually they get there, but it's it's so

Kiss Me Maybe: Going Viral on the Sapphic Internet for an Accidental Thirst Trap

Alesia Galati 12:03

good. Okay, moving on to Kiss Me Maybe. We have Marcella's cousin, correct? They're all cousins in each of the series.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

No, Angela is cousins with Julian. So that that's where that's so Marcella and Angela, they work at the same library, and yeah, they're the true best friends. Well, she decides to date the internet, which uh the whole sapphic internet, yeah. In order to get her first kiss, she goes viral for an accidental thirst trap. She didn't think it was a thirst trap. The internet decides what it decides and said, Hey, we want you. And then she's like, never really dated before, but I kind of want to. Maybe there's an opportunity here. And so she comes up with this idea for a scavenger hunt in order to have her first kiss. Her idea is just to have people compete in a series of steps, like if whoever wins the scavenger hunt gets to kiss her. The only problem is she's had a thing for the local neighborhood hot bartender named Crystal, who as they get closer and closer, Crystal decides, hey, this is a lot. I will try to help you organize a scavenger hut, come up with some ideas, see what can happen. But what happens is instead they grow feelings for each other, instead, which kind of throws a wrench into the plans that Angela has already posted and people are expecting. They want to see the scavenger hunt, they want to know what happens, they're invested in her life, but everything's going off of the rails. So it's so fun. It's just it's chaos, and I I love it too. Just chaos incarnate. I feel like that's all of my books now.

Alesia Galati 13:45

I'm here for it. You go in knowing exactly what to expect. People who do not have their shit together, and that's okay, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:51

I feel like I feel like that's realistic. I feel like that's me. It's like I never have my shit together. I'm just like, whatever happens, happens.

Alesia Galati 13:58

But like, even I feel like dating nowadays, and but again, I've been out of the game. I'll be celebrating 10 years married tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Congratulations. Congratulations.

Alesia Galati 14:12

No plans. We're gonna wait until we go on vacation with my mother-in-law and do a nice date and close the place down. Typical people who are like homebodies and never go anywhere. So it's been a minute. But from what I'm seeing, the pickings are slim, and of course, you would do what you could to try to find love.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah. Why risk a dating app? You might go through what Julian and Letty go

Normalizing Asexuality, Graysexual Realities, and Writing the Rep You Needed

SPEAKER_00 14:39

through.

Alesia Galati 14:39

Exactly. Yeah, we don't need that. So I love that you also have ace representation throughout your books. I'm trying to think in the first one, nothing is coming to mind, so correct me if I'm wrong. Is there ace representation in the first one? In the first one, no. No? Okay. But in the second one, you definitely do. She is, what would you consider her to be?

SPEAKER_00 15:05

So she is gray sexual. So she's a gray sexual lesbian.

Alesia Galati 15:09

One thing that I really liked is even after reading Kiss Me Maybe, and we have an episode, I'll make sure I'll link it in the show notes. We have an episode with Margarita Schala, where they talk about how like the spectrum of asexuality and aromanticism and like the entire realm of all of it, and just giving you a better understanding. So go check that episode out for a deep understanding. But really, the whole premise is very similar to autism. If you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. If you've met one ace person, you've met one ace person. Everyone's varyings, because it is a spectrum, is so unique to them and how they approach sexuality and romance. And so I feel like in Kiss Me Maybe, I was like, okay, I kind of have an idea and I kind of understand what Gray Sexual is. And then in reading your new book, Second First Dates, I was like, oh, I understand it a little more. Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Because again, it's so unique to everyone. To everyone. Yeah. I think that's just from personal experience, I think that's why it took so long for me to realize that I was asexual, right? Because I had this one idea of what it meant to be asexual. And then kind of joke all my life. Ha ha, joke's on you. Yes, you are. But yeah, I think also just there not being as much visibility as there could be just within media books, I feel like get is getting better, but it could also be so much better just like in media and TV movies, things like that. Just a general knowledge of it, I feel, is still pretty low because of like how low that visibility still is. And just like writing Kiss Me Naby and even second first days was just writing the book that I needed to find, just to be like, hey, those ideas that you previously had of what it meant to be asexual, just like it's so much wider than you even know. And so that's like why I was so determined to write Kiss Me Naby, especially, just like, because that's what I needed a long time ago. I was like 24 or 25 when I finally realized, oh, I think I am asexual. And just like it would have given me a lot of answers a lot sooner in life that I think I could have used.

Alesia Galati 17:40

Yeah. I think that representation in seeing not only maybe what you're feeling reflected, but also understanding other people's experience.

Empathy in Fiction: Portraying Allosexual vs. Asexual Spectra Without Judgement

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Yeah.

Alesia Galati 17:51

Romance is such a beautiful way of portraying that where I'm alosexual, meaning the other side, not ace.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Yeah.

Alesia Galati 18:01

I can have sexual attraction towards people. I don't really need to get to know them, so I'm not demisexual. It doesn't mean I'm promiscuous in any way, right? Just the idea.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah. It's the sexual attraction part. And that's what I think a lot of people misunderstand about being demisexual in general. Oh, like that's just a normal person. No, it's the feelings you have. It doesn't necessarily mean you're acting on those feelings.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

We don't act on all the feelings.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Yes. Exactly. There may be so many other misunderstandings of what it means to be ace. People have such a hard time thinking about like other things from like other people's point of view. Right. They're, I think, stuck on like what they would do in a certain situation. And then if someone does the wrong thing or doesn't do what they would do, then oh, I don't understand you. What are you doing? Like type of a thing. It's not that hard to have empathy and to put yourself in other people's shoes every once in a while, like see things from where they are, and just try to understand what their thought process is. I think a lot of people, most people maybe just don't want to do that anymore for some reason.

Alesia Galati 19:12

Yeah. I think stories give us the ability to do that.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Yeah. Right.

Alesia Galati 19:16

It's seeing someone else's experience. And even one thing I'm constantly asking my kids is how do you think that person feels? Or how do you think that person's day is going that they decided to act that way? What do you think's maybe going on in their life? No, we don't have to take it if they're being mean to us. No, we don't have to be nice to them. We do need to be kind. We're kind always. And also you don't have to take trash from people if you don't want to. That's okay. You get to just be like you can sit with that. But also just having that consideration of what do you think might be happening in their life? Because you never know what someone else is going through or experiencing. But I feel like stories and romance, especially, because it's like you come for the smut and the smooching, but just stay for the other stuff, right? The

Second First Dates: Demisexual Heroes, Roommate Best Friends, and Truffle Fry Disasters

Alesia Galati 20:07

human experience that we get to see reflected. So let's talk about your third book. In it, speaking of the ace representation, you have a demisexual male main character, which I don't think we see enough of, and I absolutely love when we see that. And then you have a gray sexual female main character. And the male main character is also bisexual. So let's get into what people can expect from your book that just came out yesterday, as of the release of this episode. Everybody go buy it, purchase it from your local bookstore, borrow it from your library, all of the ethical ways. Don't make me fight you to get books.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Second first dates, we follow Letty and Julian, who were also side characters in Kiss Me Maybe, and the end of that book sets up where we see them at the start of this book. So we follow Letty and Julian who match on a dating app. And when this happens, Letty is excited, but also thinking, like this guy looks a little bit familiar to me. I'm not exactly sure why. And then puts it out of her head as they message back and forth, come up with a plan to go out on a first date. And then they do, and then it goes sideways a little bit, where he's late. He is ranting about people getting married too young and having kids too young and all of that. And just he's not on his game at all. And then just puts the nail in the coffin when he grabs a sushi roll off of her plate and eats it right in front of her. And she's immediately like, okay. First of all, this date is bad. This is a dud. Why did we agree to this? And second of all, now I recognize you because four years ago we went on a first date and it was just as terrible as it is now. And so that's the start there. But it doesn't end because at the end of the night, she realizes that they not only live in the same apartment building, he is also her younger brother's roommate and best friend. And she has a lot of contention with her younger brother. And so she's like, Ugh, I practically hate my brother and you're his best friend and you're living with him. No wonder this date was so bad. Not only that, just to throw another wrench into the forced proximity, they also work at the same school. And so she literally cannot get rid of this man. And it's just like, what is happening right now? Eventually she goes on another first date. She's like, I have to get out of this rut. Maybe the next date will be better. Everything will be fine. Blah, blah, blah. And then that date also goes south. But who should be at the table right next to her? Julian again, because she literally, quite literally, cannot get rid of this man. And so as they're talking and he's making her feel better about what happened on this date and everything. The next day he comes up with this idea and says, Hey, why don't you let me take over your dating apps? Maybe I can find someone better for you, since you really can't seem to find someone better for yourself. And I know I was one of those people. Maybe this is some way I can try and make this up to you. And then she reluctantly agrees. And so he starts taking over her dating app and trying to find other people for her to date. Meanwhile falling for her, like being in denial about it until he can't quite anymore. And he's like, oh shit, what have I done? This is terrible. And then she finds herself falling for him as well, which is very complicated because she's also now dating other people that he found for her. So that's them.

Alesia Galati 24:18

I love the chaos. It is, oh man. Okay, so I had to tell my husband about this whole first date scenario. I was like, babe, imagine this. And when I said truffle fries and he ate the whole bag, my husband was like, no, throw the whole man out.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

No. Exactly. What do you mean? He ate truffle fries, they are expensive. What do you mean? They are. They are.

Alesia Galati 24:45

And I was like, you get it.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

You get it.

Alesia Galati 24:49

But I'm someone who hates sharing my food. Like even with my kids, I know that makes me a bad mom. I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

No, it's not. You do you deserve, but you deserve it.

Alesia Galati 24:59

Can I have can I I will very begrudgingly share. But there better be more for me left after the sharing.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Exactly, exactly.

Alesia Galati 25:12

Very begrudgingly. And so that whole like that hit my heart on so many levels, and I was like, oh, this man. Throw him out. Throw the man out. And like when you hear his point of view, like he's like, I was a college student. I didn't even real like I realized how expensive they were. At that point, I was just like, we're in too deep already, anyways. Yep.

Unpacking Machismo, Intergenerational Favoritism, and Shitty Family Dynamics

Alesia Galati 25:34

Dude thing to think. And so, oh my goodness. Okay. What I love about this story, everybody go read it. But what I love about it is you have such a interesting dynamic that I don't think we see enough in romance, and that is two Latinx leads. And they're understanding of the favoritism and the machismo that is in Hispanic families. And so he under like when she explains, I have this massive distrust and offensiveness about my brother. He's like, But he like, I know this side of him and I don't know what you're talking about. But I then when he sees it reflected as, oh, I understand. It's not exactly the brother, it's how the parents interact with the brother or treat him as better than and how he pushes himself, which he shouldn't be doing anyway, but pushes himself to be the perfect son to his parents for whatever reason. His choices are his choices. And so having that reflected in him understanding, having that also Latino family where you know his dad does not talk to him because he is bisexual. And then

Bisexual Representation and Overcoming Misplaced Guilt in a Heteronormative World

Alesia Galati 26:54

one conversation that happens in the book that I absolutely loved as a bisexual was Julian's talking to his cousin and their partner, Marcella and Theo, are there. And he's saying, I feel like I gave up this relationship with my dad based on the idea that I'm bisexual, only to end up with a woman. And I was like, oh, my heart. Yeah. All the feelings. And it was just such a real moment of being bisexual in a very heteronormative world. And then also being like, no, your dad was trash anyway. You are better off without him, sweetie. And so is your mother. Clearly, she is better on without him. So that doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what choices led to that. He made his choices to be trash. So like he can be trash over there. It doesn't matter who you end up with. That is not a reflection. Like your choices were not a reflection of his actions. His actions are a reflection of his actions and his beliefs. And I just I found that so healing. And so, yes. Thank you. Why was that an important kind of aspect to this story as you're creating Julian as a bisexual, demisexual male main character, also being Latino?

SPEAKER_00 28:16

I just felt like that was an important moment for him because you also see a lot of that strife that he carries when he's in Kiss Me Maybe and he's dealing with the fallout of what's going on with his parents and his father basically refusing to accept him. And just dealing from the fallout of that and just maybe even some misplaced guilt for splitting up his family or like making everyone choose sides, which, first of all, if you have to choose sides over something like that because you can't accept him for who he is, that's a shitty reason. Maybe a shitty person for not being able to see past that. And I think it's just something so prevalent that I see is the homophobia within this community and just thinking about ways that I grew up with my own family members, and just we were kind of like you mentioned religious trauma before we got on the podcast recording. And I was definitely a huge piece of that just for me, and trying to get over my own biases that I had because of the way that I grew up, and just figuring out my own identity and what I am and things like that, and just a lot of really hard stuff that I had to move past all on my own because of the way that I grew up, and maybe family members not realizing just how destructive and bad those beliefs are and how deeply they can affect people, especially children when they're growing up and they are trying to learn about themselves as well. And I think that's why it was really important for me to write that scene the way that I did with Julian and just really getting into his situation and his thought process of like how he went through that whole thing. And I feel like it's a very real experience too, because of like how much again, like the misplaced guilt he had, and then what was it all for? So that just he could fall in love with a woman if he had never come out, then none of this ever would have happened, type of a thing. It's again that sort of misplaced guilt, but it's misplaced because he wanted to be accepted for who he is. And I don't think that's something that anyone should ever have to apologize for. And that's the conversation that he has with everyone in that room, and just now he's surrounded by the people who accept him for who he is no matter what,

Found Family: Replacing Toxic Boundaries with Unconditional Support

SPEAKER_00 30:44

right? And that's I think at the end of the day, found family is also another thing that I always love in books, because if you don't find that acceptance within your family as you should, then the best thing that you can do for yourself is to find that somewhere else with your own friends and people who support you no matter what and no matter who you are. And that was just my whole thing with that.

Alesia Galati 31:07

Yeah, I think it was such an important conversation and gutted while also feeling so affirmed. Because I do think, yeah, there is so much biphobia. There's so much, even in the LGBTQIA plus community, bisexuals aren't real queer people, right? There's a lot of that as well. And it can be hard just being like, this is who I am. Again, it doesn't mean that I act on every inclination or every impulse to want to be with somebody, but this is what I find attractive, and that that is what it is. It's just one piece of who I am. Exactly.

The Overcorrection of the Playboy Trope: Defending Virgin Heroines and Heroes

Alesia Galati 31:45

You also have the double virgin in this. I do. Oh my god. I do. I love it. I love it so much. There is so much discussion around what feels good, lots of foreplay, lots of pre-play, lots of all of that stuff. Why was having that double virgin aspect important for this, as well as those moments that led up to the quote unquote big event? And I just literally mean insertion. There were events that happened before that that were still very intimate and very beautiful and very purposeful for moving the story along. So yeah, as you were kind of coming up with these characters, that double virgin trope, I don't think we see, I don't think we see it enough, and I love it.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Thank you. Part of the reason why I did that was because I feel like we don't see it a whole lot. I think now there's a lot of discussion about either people not liking seeing virgin characters, especially women, because and I almost view it as an overcorrection for a lot of past slut shaming in romance that happened as soon as 10 years ago. There's some books from there where it's like the woman is always a virgin, and then the guy is always the playboy who has been around town, knows what he's doing, type of a thing. And it was always that sort of dynamic throughout. And then there's been a shift, which I do feel like was needed because I feel like that reflects more of what life actually is and what life actually looks like for a lot of women who like, hey, we have had previous relationships, we have had sex before. That's not a whole thing anymore, really. And just I think seeing that reflected more is important. However, I feel like there's also a bit of a flip or a bit of an overcorrection where now virgin heroines or even virgin heroes are seen as unrealistic, or there's some subset of readers who don't want to see that at all. For and they have their own personal reasons, which I think is perfectly fine. But I think just having these two also be ace characters is also another important aspect of like why they are still virgins and just see what their dating histories look like and haven't quite gotten there yet. Granted, they are still pretty young. Letty's about 26, Julian's about 24, something like that. And now I think we're seeing that more and more with newer generations that are having sex a lot less than the previous generation before them. Maybe a lot of that, I don't know if I'm like psychoanalyzing now, but maybe a lot of that has to do with the phone thing and social media and increasing isolation and things like that, and just dating apps are now the major way that people find their partners and date if they even get that far. Because again, the dating landscape is trash right now, and just not a lot of people are dating maybe as frequently as they would like to be. In this economy. In this economy, exactly. Exactly. So I think all of those things factor into the choice of why they are still virgins, and it felt like the right choice for those characters and them not having a whole lot of dating history in their past or experience, it just being like patchy. Does this even count? Type of a thing, especially with Letty who had her like situationship, who didn't really want to call it a relationship. And I think that's something that I thought was important to show because I feel like that's happening a lot more than people acknowledge or recognize.

Alesia Galati 35:34

Yeah. And you we see a lot of the opposite social media, people maybe hyperbolizing on their experiences or even TV and things like that and media. There's so much like sex, sex, sex, when that's not always the case, right? Or everyone's situation is very different or looks very different. Yeah. And again, your upbringing has so much to do with how you approach this intimacy as well, or how comfortable you are, thinking about it, talking about it, being about it, right? Like all of the different aspects to it. There's so much. But what I love about what your story had was you had those discussions and the sneaking in where she didn't mean to, moments where Letty was like, I'm not attracted to him like I'm attracted to you, like sexually. And he was like, Hold up a minute. Wait a minute. What do you mean? And she's like, nothing. I don't know what to talk about. Goodbye. I hate you. Exactly, exactly.

Leti to a T: Embracing Unlikable Heroines and Healing Childhood Wounds

Alesia Galati 36:40

I love it so much. You have a in this one a female main character that I would consider unlikable. Not that I didn't like her. I liked her a lot, obviously. But I think in the grand scheme of things, she was unlikable to other people, not her core circle or her friend group or any of that stuff. Like the people who knew her understood her. Why was that important for this character? But also in exploring that a little bit more. I feel like your other characters, there weren't really any that were, they were generally likable. Whereas Letty was different, I feel like, than a lot of your other characters.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yeah. You know what's funny is the first thing I thought of was there's that TikTok video of, I think it's the, you know, the older sister, like the sister who's happier away from family. And it's like when she's with the friends and everything, she's smiling, she's laughing, then back home, she's just the angry child or the one who's never understands or type of a thing. And that's every time I see that, I'm like, that's Letty. Two T. That is Letty. I tend to like an unlikable heroine. I wish that there were more, and honestly, I wish there was a more nuanced conversation around unlikable characters because sometimes you're an unlikable character in your own life, depending on who you're with, and especially family. They can bring out sides of you that you wish you could bury or you wish didn't exist in this own special way that only they can, that only people who have known you your entire life can. And I think that was something so interesting to explore with Letty. And it was not only fun, but I think just so interesting of diving into who she is, what her past looks like with her family, and just how there are so many hurt feelings that can come up through childhood and everything like that, and just especially old wounds that have never healed, right, which was definitely Andrew for her, but really their parents and just having all of that kind of stem from them and just the different ways that they treated these three kids. And that's another thing that I see a lot too on TikTok was like you live in the same house, you did not have the same childhood as your sister or your brother, just because the relationships with your parents can be so different. I think, especially in a Latinx household, because you've mentioned it before of the favoritism, especially with sons. Yeah, always do no wrong. Yeah. And then if you try to go against that norm, they really try to teach you when you're a girl or you're just trying to teach you from womanhood, whatever that even means. And just Letty being like, I am not having any of that. I want to carve my own path. I don't care if you guys like it or not, type of a thing, because you've never really liked anything that I do.

Alesia Galati 39:37

Yeah, she owns herself and what she wants her path to be in such a wonderful way. And I love how Julianne comes in and kind of stands between her and others. I feel like he's holding her back most of the time, but also being like, y'all need to get it together, and I will not let you continue to do this, and this is how you're gonna show up. Yes. It's not that she necessarily needed it or wanted it or had that expectation that he would come in and swoop in that way, but she also kind of secretly loves it.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Yeah. Oh, she's never had that before. So I think just for her, it's like almost like a surprise. Oh, like I really did not think that I would ever have anyone on my side. And I think he's definitely the buffer that she needs, and especially just like him having his own relationship with Andrew, but just coming into this family, just like he has a lot more context, I think, to the situation and how he can go between them.

Alesia Galati 40:43

Yeah. And he challenges her too, right? To be better, to do better. She don't like it. We get it. But I think that it's such an important part of both of them growing and understanding each other better and him being like, look, maybe just have a conversation. I'm not telling you what you need to do, but you kind of should have this conversation. But I'm still here. I'm still in your corner. This doesn't mean that I'm in his corner and not yours. It just means just doing a little nudging. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Yeah. And I think that's what the best relationships do too. It's not just be always on your side, even when you were obviously in the wrong. It's challenging each other when you are in the wrong and to do better and to do the right thing, which is what he pushes her to do, even though, again, she doesn't like it because she's caught in this cycle with Andrew and she doesn't want to end it. And but he's like, No, it has to end. It does. And it really does have to.

Alesia Galati 41:34

Yeah. You get to a point where it's like, y'all gotta move on. Either this is gonna work or it's not. Let's go. Duke it out.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Duke it out, exactly. Exactly.

Alesia Galati 41:45

Okay,

Outro: Where to Support Gabriella Gamez

Alesia Galati 41:46

everybody, go check out second first dates. It is available, like I said, wherever you purchase or borrow your books. Legally, we do not pirate books. There's a lot on the interwebs today. Go to the library. Go to the library, please, and borrow the book. So, where can people find you? What is your favorite social media platform where we can connect with you, connect with your content, all that fun stuff?

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Yeah, that'll probably be Instagram. I'm there at Gabby Writesalot.

Alesia Galati 42:19

Awesome. And we'll have links for that in the show notes, as well as the other episodes that we mentioned, the asexual spectrum with Margarita Shala, as well as the episode with Adrian Thurman, where we talked about how to pick a book title or not to, just get a publisher to do it for you, and all of your links as well. Gabby, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for being on.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Thanks so much for having me. This was incredible. I love this.